Espagnol

Link: http://www.notepad.ch

Breaking News
At notepad TV, video footage of this interview will be published simultaneously in English and with German subtitles Saturday, March 20 2010 at 23:55 CET (11:55 PM) due to a current event, the (pending) Start of the CERN LHC:
www.notepad.TV

Selected press coverage

Media: The Register
Title: The LHC will implode the Moon or PUT OUT THE SUN'
Quote: 'Professor Rössler wouldn't make our list just for this, however: what's really brought him up on our radar is an excellent interview he gave to Swiss anti-LHC tinfoiler blog (sorry, "non profit news agency") notepad.ch. In it, the prof reveals some new and splendid notions on how the great Collider will doom us all'

Media: Scientias.nl
Title: “LHC kan de zon vernietigen” - 'LHC can destroy the sun'

'It would be wonderful if one could disproof this main danger that black holes would not evaporate, would be therefore eternal essentially, so they would eventually eat the Earth. Whether I'm right that it's only 5 years or it takes longer is less important in comparison. But this is the basic question on the table and the public should be allowed to participate in a discussion about this question. I call it a safety conference. A security or safety conference. And this conference doesn't cost much. It doesn't take more than a week to arrange. It can be done. And CERN can wait for this week. And if enough people on the planet say, why not go the safe way, then everything is fine.'
Professor Doctor Otto E. Roessler

Armin Albarracin

On March 13 2010 notepad publishing has visited Professor Roessler in his hometown, in Tübingen, Germany, to interview him about the Dangers at the CERN LHC.

German Translation
www.stopcern.com

'There are some scientists called medical people. And they have the Hippocratic Oath. And there must be a Hippocratic Oath for the whole field of science of course. Eventually. Because humans, humanity, the Earth is so small that it is necessary to have a common ethics eventually. And maybe this is an occasion, that everybody realizes that it is possible to be as kind as science can be. And CERN has given this present of the internet as we already said, so science is something like the good uncle of everyone on the planet. And CERN is the good uncle of the planet. And they would destroy this World. They would loose all credit with a majority of young people on the planet. Why risk that?'
Professor Doctor Otto E. Roessler on science, ethics and the destruction of the Earth
(Source: Wikipedia Picture: Earth)

Source: Scholarpedia

Professor Roessler is a well known and well respected multidisciplinary scientist - author of many books and revolutionary scientific papers in many different areas of science - still lecturing at the University of Tübingen at the age of 77 years.

Professor Roessler is also an outspoken critic of the CERN experiment since the very first days. Professor Roessler is not against the CERN LHC experiment, but he believes that the safety of the experiment has leaks and he calls with urgency for a safety conference to be conducted before the CERN LHC is turned on again, which he believes and fears will be next week.

Editorial

We feel very proud to have been able to conduct this memorable interview with Professor Roessler and we believe this interview is made public at exactly the right time in order to give global human and true scientists consciousness a chance to make sure that the CERN LHC safety is assured before the largest and most expensive machine ever build by humankind is turned on.

We have decided, after years of extensive research on the subject CERN LHC and a row of awakening editorials, to stop reporting on the CERN LHC until further notice. One should not follow a strong word by a weak one. And the interview below seems to us such a strong word that 'the words stick in our craw'.

We very much hope that Professor Roesslers warning gets finally heard and that this long due safety conference will finally happen. In Professor Roesslers words: 'When it's hopefully not too late'.

Armin Albarracin
notepad publishing
Montreux, March 18 2010

Professor Doctor Otto E. Roessler

Armin Albarracin

notepad:
This is a interview with Professor Otto E. Roessler by notepad publishing senior investigative journalist Armin Albarracin. notepad publishing is a non-profit news agency domiciled in Switzerland. We have visited Professor Otto E. Roessler in his home town in Tuebingen, Germany, to talk with him about the CERN LHC. Hello Professor Roessler and welcome.

Professor Roessler:
It's my pleasure.

notepad:
Professor Roessler, how are you feeling today, especially in regards to the Large Hadron Collider, which has been turned on again?

Professor Roessler:
I'm worried, frankly speaking. Because the safety of the experiment has leaks.

notepad:
When we started reporting on the CERN LHC in April 2008, we looked everywhere for information about the largest and most expensive machine ever build by mankind. You where the only critical voice we found. Today there are many critics worldwide. Are you aware that you have awakened a lot of people to the dangers of the CERN LHC and how does this feel?

Professor Roessler:
It's nothing to feel comfortable about. Dangers are never something that you feel good when you dissipate them. So a warning is always something you do because you feel pain and you want to be relieved not just of your own pain but to prevent pain ... to prevent pain from affecting other people. So it's a medical kind of activity of mine. I started out as a medical doctor. And so I feel sometimes doctors have to speak out if there is a safety leak somewhere.

notepad:
So this is a bit like if you have a patient and he has cancer and you have to tell him?

Professor Roessler:
Exactly. If there is a treatment - and you can propose it.

notepad:
To not let it happen but do something about it.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. Like surgery. It might be a little bit painful to say please stop something but in the End it is worth doing for everyone.

notepad:
At some point we felt that your position on the CERN LHC was under a lot of attack. We even read articles and posts mentioning that your theory about the creation of a stable, black hole that would ultimately destroy the Universe or the World has been proven false.

Professor Roessler:
It's only about the Earth at the moment. And as far as I know no proofs have ever been given that there was a mistake in what I have presented.

notepad:
Yes. That was what I was surprised about too. Because on one side there was this, let me call it kind of CERN propaganda, saying no, his arguments have been defused ... are wrong, we have shown that, and on the other side I couldn't find that information.

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
Right. To the best of knowledge my hard arguments have not been defeated, but of course I'm a stupid person. Maybe I said something stupid also somewhere. But my theorem which proves that the danger exists is valid as far as I can say to the best of my knowledge.

notepad:
When the CERN was turned on the first time in September 2008, before the serious accident and the long break required for reparation work, newspapers around the World and especially here in Switzerland were reporting in a very sensationalist manner. They did finally mention the danger of a stable black hole and they often in a mocking way mentioned the danger of the End of the World induced by the LHC. We were pleased to see reporting on the LHC but we were unhappy how the press - with some exceptions - handled it. How did you experience the media coverage in 2008?

Professor Roessler:
I was not too disappointed in 2008. There were quite a few TV stations who reported about the alleged dangers that I had been talking about - and I was not the first of course - Walter Wagner must be mentioned. He started almost 10 years ago and he has different concerns than I have - but it's the second stage of the experiment with lead nuclei rather than protons being smashed against each other that he is warning off. I admire him.

notepad:
So you were saying that Wagner- who made the lawsuit in Hawaii, the first lawsuit, I think, against the CERN LHC - Wagner sees the danger in a later stage in the experiments than you.

Professor Roessler:
Exactly. So we are kind of dividing the territory between the two of us.

notepad:
That is practical!

Professor Roessler:
Yes. (Laughter).

notepad:
It also makes us seem a little bit bigger. One thing I find interesting is that in the meantime - I mean in the 2 years that have passed since I first learned of the danger you where mentioning - many other theories have, or some other theories have been published some are quite serious and quite plausible others are a bit more extravagant. What's your position on this ? I personally think that your theory alone would warrant at least a new security conference and to make sure that the danger is handled before we go on with the CERN. But there are now many other theories. What does that make?

Professor Roessler:
I mean in principle it's nice not to be alone, especially if you think you are right. And anyone who is on your side is a great help. But some times of course some theories are just a little bit possible so that the probabilities attached to theories are different. And the one with the worst probability (or the highest probability) is the one that should be focused on. Because otherwise interest will be lost if it turns out that some of the arguments are not very valid when considered.

notepad:
I agree with that. I also personally am impressed by how many people show profound interest in the CERN. I have seen papers 300 to 400 pages long.

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
It's a wonderful endeavour in principle. It's also nice to see so many people that are suddenly interested in this kind of science.

notepad:
Right.I mean they start learning, they start reading books, they start discussing.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. It's suddenly so that every young person can become a specialist in danger theory. In this particular area. So it turns out that science is again something that anyone can lay his or her hands on.

notepad:
I agree. This is an interesting point. I have a daughter who just has turned 11 years and she loves experiments. And I think when I remember when I was a child I loved experiments.

Professor Roessler:
It's wonderfully nice activities of human beings. It's not war (laughter). It's not making money. It's just something that helps everyone know more on the planet. The essence of science.

notepad:
The CERN is now turned on again.

Professor Roessler:
I'm afraid it will be turned on next week, actually.

notepad:
They said last week but then tomorrow but now yesterday but maybe next week might it be really turned on. And I think the plan is to stay with it, make no winter breaks. Just go on 18-24 months. That's what I read.

Professor Roessler:
And maybe they will even reach the maximum energy this month already which is a reason of great worry.

notepad:
This is half of the total energy which is planned.

Professor Roessler:
Right. It is not 14 - which will be the maximum in 2 years time - but it's already 7 Tera electron volts. It would already be something like 4 times more than has ever been achieved in the past.

notepad:
And my understanding is they don't go to full energy just because they have design problems. It has been written in many articles that they need to make changes in their design to be able to go to the...

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
...14 TeV goal. Yes.

notepad:
But it is not because of the CERN critic’s movement or because they think themselves we should go slow.

Professor Roessler:
No, I agree. It's a reasonable decision because the machines are too old and have proven to be less reliable than they thought.

notepad:
The CERN LHC will be turned on again next week and they want to stay at this high energy level for up to 2 years without a break. That is what I think they say right now.

Professor Roessler:
I don't know.

notepad:
Why this haste? Why so quick? What do you think?

Professor Roessler:
Maybe the fact that interviews like this are taking place is one of the reasons. They are so much in the defense, they are trying to create - it is called in French 'Un fait accompli'. To accomplish some thing which is no longer reversible, which cannot be turned back again. Of course once the criticism turns out to be right, it's no longer possible to avoid what they want to do.

notepad:
Yes. That would mean that your theory, the publicity that the critics movement in general has gained ...

Professor Roessler:
... might be the reason for an accident for example. Yes.

notepad:
... has created a certain awakening.

Professor Roessler:
Yes, this also, yes. But if it comes too late of course it would in the End have a negative effect rather than a positive effect.

notepad:
Yes, because we are basically pushing them. we are indirectly pushing them, because they say 'Oh my God. We don't act now we may get hindered!'.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. So the real director of CERN would be me at the moment and I would be responsible for 'him' making the mistake (laughter). How sad it is - I did not think of that before.

notepad:
There is a lot of praise in the media on the CERN. I mean most of the media. For example, the Spanish press calls the CERN 'La maquina de dios'. The machine of God. The God Machine or the Gods machine.

Professor Roessler:
And the Internet is of course a fruit of CERN's. The internet is a blessing. CERN gave the World a beautiful present. Yes.

notepad:
Yes. Well you can see it both ways. In a way the father of the internet, the mother of the internet, is CERN and this gives them some leeway but on the other side the internet is also what has made the critics movement possible.

Professor Roessler:
That's so, yes. But that’s only fair. I mean, certain people might be disappointed by this fact.

notepad:
As a non-scientist I have difficulty understanding exactly what for we need this. That is maybe a little bit a special point. But you know, the CERN says 'We want to find the Higgs particle', 'We want to find the God particle', we want to do this and that. I'm personally, I'm fine if I have a good bottle of wine and some nice cheese with me and a nice evening with my family, go hiking in the mountains. I don't need to find the God particle. What does humankind need this for?

Professor Roessler:
It's this secret or miracle of science. Unfortunately it has this military side to it. It has these 2 sides. One is medicine - the other is military. And any so called basic research is important for both sides. And the atom bomb, atomic bomb, proves that something is wrong with the whole principle of unhibited fundamental research. Unhibited fundamental research. Nonetheless I would not be a critic of it, basically, as soon as there is no reason to be concerned. That one can hope that the fruits will be worth it.

Armin Albarracin

notepad:
Yes. If my daughter likes to do an experiment, I'm also not against it. As long as she does not destroy the World with it.

Professor Roessler:
And especially medicine proves that it is possible to have this collective effort for progress. Real progress. And it is only the bomb which kind of - how should I say - has reduced this hope in science. And it's a great pity. And now there is a danger here that not enough caution is being used. That is all I'm calling for. I want to be disproved with my proof that there is a danger here. And not to disprove is being uncautious. And uncautiousness cannot be justified in retrospect. Why not be kind and why use violence by preventing a question from being answered before it is too late. There is nothing that can be said against that.

notepad:
That is true. I have read quite a few times that people think that you and in general the CERN critics movement, that they are against the CERN.

Professor Roessler:
No, no. I'm the only one who is not critical of CERN on the planet (laughter) as long as CERN is following the rules of science. But CERN is about to destroy the credibility of science for the future - even if the planet survives, as everyone hopes of course.

notepad:
I agree. I think what is seen a bit wrong here when you say the critics movement is against the CERN is that most of the critics I would say maybe all of the critics I ever meet or talked to or I have seen, listened to or read - they are in a way fans of the CERN. They are people interested in science, they are people interested in science, they are people interested in understanding new things and in getting forward humankind.

Professor Roessler:
And CERN could tell the young people how beautiful it is to discuss these questions so they could learn that science is based on dialog and on mutual trust.

notepad:
That brings me to the next question and it's really that I have talked to a few people in person or over the internet that actually have to do with the CERN, work at the CERN or work at the RHIC in the US and mostly I heard this position: 'Are you a particle scientist? No. So, what do you want? Why discuss it with me? We take care. It's a bit like a doctor and you go and say 'Are you sure I need this medicament?' and he says 'I give you a list and I know best'. Now this attitude is something that I personally find... it makes me feel afraid.

Professor Roessler:
It presupposes that there are different levels of specialists and some of them are able to talk to critics and others are not and they can excuse themselves but then there should be others who are able to communicate.

notepad:
Yes. Absolutely. And in a way, if at the CERN they would only like to find the beginning of the Universe and things like that, where we come from, these are also beautiful and big questions. If that is the case, if that is the only reason for doing the LHC, why not let people participate? This is a beautiful event. Why say no, you don't ask questions, you don't get interested.

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
Exactly. It's a patronizing attitude. And science of course - this is not the essence of it, that is not reconcilable with science. Because science is... when you don't know, what the truth is, you have to be very, very patient and very humble. And a science that is not humble proves that something is wrong with it. It's like it having been infected by a psychological disease. It's a psychiatric symptom.

notepad:
My hero of scientists - apart you of course - is Einstein. And if you look at his face everybody likes him. They like him so much that Scientology likes him and they put posters everywhere. That I don't like so much. But, what I mean, he looks like a humble person...

Professor Roessler:
Yes. He was honest.

notepad:
... and honest. He has this humanity...

Professor Roessler:
And he knew that every young person has the same capabilities as he had.

notepad:
It would be nice to see the CERN Management and the CERN employees and these particle physicists have this same kind of Einstein look and feel. You know, the kind of a bit a forgetful scientist with some little weird hair - which is a bit like you I must admit - whom you like, whom you kind of trust. He is like a child. He is looking at things but he is not a dangerous child.

Professor Roessler:
Right, yes. Even though what he found proved dangerous in the long run and he was very much ...

notepad:
... sad ...

Professor Roessler:
... and his whole life fell down when the bomb had been dropped.

Armin Albarracin

notepad:
Yes. That is true. I think that is a big problem always and this might also be a problem at the CERN. I heard or I read about even a patent being made for using black holes as a military weapon - if that can be done one day. But in a way that proves that some people in the military maybe have the idea to use this if possible, or at least look at it.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. Science should be under the control of medicine in the long run (laughter). That is one of the... the Hippocratic oath. There are some scientists called medical people. And they have the Hippocratic oath. And there must be a Hippocratic oath for the whole field of science, of course, eventually. Because humans, humanity, the Earth is so small that it is necessary to have a common ethics eventually. And maybe this is an occasion. That everybody realizes that it is possible to be as kind as science can be. And CERN has given this present of the internet as we already said, so science is something like the good uncle of everyone on the planet.

notepad:
Yes. That is the way I would like to see it and that is the way I find science exciting.

Professor Roessler:
And CERN is the good uncle of the planet. And they would destroy this World. They would lose all credit with a majority of young people on the planet. Why risk that?

notepad:
I think you know this kind off... I find it personally a bit arrogant, the behavior of the CERN to not... just to not look, not listen, not meet, not talk to critics - with a few exceptions... I think you have been invited at the CERN?

Professor Roessler:
No,no. I was allowed to get an audience.

notepad:
To get an audience, right. Not so long ago. When was that, Professor Roessler?

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
2 months ago.

notepad:
Can you give us some impressions of how this is? I have never been inside, so, how are people there? How is feeling there, how is the mood there?

Professor Roessler:
Oh, it's wonderful. I also spent a few hours in the cafeteria waiting for a young person who had invited me afterwards to discuss with him. He didn't come - he later excused himself. But the atmosphere is wonderful. It's like the University 'Mensa' of Tübingen, a 100 times bigger. And the atmosphere is great and everything is nice.

notepad:
Did you see in one or two pairs of eyes a sprinkle 'Hey, I recognize you!'?

Professor Roessler:
No. No.

notepad:
So when you went you didn't feel you where known there?

Professor Roessler:
No. By no means. No. I was completely anonymous. It felt very nice. Very good. And people who are eating are always in a good mood. You know (laughter). They just had nice discussions. The spirit was a Max Planck spirit, so to speak.

notepad:
When I first got interested as a journalist with notepad publishing on the CERN I remember that you mentioned that it could be built on the Moon. And my question here is, we reported that at the time and we found it an interesting proposal, at least a solution, a possible solution and an entry point for discussion: but, really, did you make a joke there or was it
completely serious? Is this still an option? Can we do it on the Moon?

Professor Roessler:
It would be too expensive. Certainly.

notepad:
I have been told quite a few times this.

Professor Roessler:
But on the other hand it wouldn’t be safe enough either. Unfortunately so.

notepad:
Can you explain that. Is it possible to explain this in such simple ways that people like me - I'm not a scientist - that we can understand this?

Professor Roessler:
You see, I am a single issue scientist in this context. It’s just the little black holes that I'm interested in. Not the strangelets that Walter Wagner is talking about. And as to the little black holes: If CERN is successful producing them it would be producing about one per second. Many, many, many of them. And most of them would fly away. Only one in every million or so would stay inside the Earth because it would be slow enough not to escape. So its intrinsic velocity and there will be almost no friction they all would go right through the Earth and go away, except when it is slow enough. It would then be circling inside the Earth and if it would be growing fast enough - which I think that I can proof - it would eat the Earth from the inside out in a few years time.

notepad:
Before I interviewed you today you mentioned that in the End the Earth would be, you said 2 centimeters...

Professor Roessler:
1.9 centimeters.

'The size of any mass, of any black hole which has the mass of the Earth is 1.9 centimeters.'
Prof. Otto. E. Roessler on the size of the Earth after the consumption by a black hole
(Picture: A Malteser Source: Wikipedia)

notepad:
Exactly. And you corrected me and said 1.9. So apparently this is based on calculation.

Professor Roessler:
Absolutely. The size of any mass, of any black hole which has the mass of the Earth, is 1.9 centimeters. But of course much of the energy would be radiated away so it would eventually be a little bit smaller than 1.9 centimeters. But we were talking about the danger to the Sun and the Moon. To the moon for example. So some of these many little black holes that would be radiating away they would be going in all directions. I didn't know that when I said the moon would be safe. I learned that from Professor Landua in CERN. And therefore as to the Moon: Enough would be hitting the moon and one would be slow enough to stay on the Moon. It's not very probable but if there are many enough it would also happen with one hitting the Moon and also with the Sun. So the Sun would go out as well.

notepad:
I'm a bit surprised, still. Because I remember at the very beginning the CERN said we produce no black holes.

Professor Roessler:
No. Yes. No. Even before that, they were hoping to produce black holes and then they learned that there are arguments against the security argument that black holes are not dangerous - which is Stephen Hawkings wonderful theory... And then, I don't know why they stopped talking about black holes as their main goal. Because it's certainly the most spectacular finding that could come out of the experiment.

So you do think that at the beginning they actually wanted to find that black hole?

Professor Roessler:
Yes, it was their best selling point.

And then they found that people said 'We are actually going to be afraid of these black holes' and then they said 'No,no,no - it's not really the black hole we want to find!' something else, the Higgs particle maybe.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. and everything one does not know, one can of course hope for.

notepad:
Is it correct to say: If Einstein is right the CERN is dangerous?

Professor Roessler:
Yes, that is exactly right what you said. Because Hawking contradicts Einstein. And Hawking's theory is needed to make the little black holes safe that would be produced at CERN, because they would evaporate. Now Hawking had a little great idea, that black holes would evaporate in 10 to the minus 29 seconds or something, which means that there would be no danger at all.

notepad:
That's fantastic. But isn't this very convenient? I see Einstein as THE scientist we had. Now, of course Hawking is also of course a very, very good scientist but ...

Professor Roessler:
... yes, and a very sympathetic person as well and he is a hero in his private life.

notepad:
Absolutely. But isn't it a bit convenient to say we are absolutely certain Einstein is completely wrong, Hawking is completely right and just by the way his theory proves that black holes just evaporate all, instantly.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. And CERN knows that and therefore CERN doesn't repeat these sentences nowadays. They are retreating on the second safety level so to speak. But they still know that the real life assurance is Hawking's theory.

notepad:
I hear often from people, from people whom I'm just talking to on the street, maybe the CERN is dangerous but, you know, we can't do anything against it. But now, what I hear from you is that really we the people that pose questions, actually made the CERN already several times change strategy. So we are having an impact. Even if we are not yet millions but we might be in the tens tousand. When I went 2 years ago on the Internet there was absolutely nothing about the CERN, apart from Walter and you, and today I find hundreds of hundreds of thousands of blogs, of forum entries, of questions on Yahoo 'Is the CERN dangerous' and whatever. Children talk in school about it.

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
Yes. That is nice. But it would be wonderful if one could disprove this main danger that black holes would not evaporate and would therefore be eternal essentially so they would eventually eat the Earth. Whether I'm right that it's only 5 years or whether it takes longer is less important in comparison. But this is the basic question on the table, and the public should be allowed to participate in a discussion about this question. I call it a safety conference. A security or safety conference. And this conference doesn't cost much. It doesn't take more than a week to arrange. It can be done. And CERN can wait for this week. And if enough people on the planet say, why not go the safe way, then everything is fine.

notepad:
Like when we drive cars - we don't drink. We should just go the safe way.

Professor Roessler:
Right. I want to be disproved. I want to be made a fool. But it does not feel so good to be a fool but not be shown to be a fool as yet. I hope I'm a fool. There is nothing better than to be a fool when you are warning.

notepad:
I agree. So this safety, this security conference - I think that is what most of the critics I talked to also want. That seems to be like a common goal. To say: 'Let's stop for a moment. Let's meet. Let's discuss.

Professor Roessler:
Precisely. Yes.

notepad:
Let's become clearly sure what exactly the risks are, how big they are and then to make a decision. If the risk is then considered to be 1:100, 1% for example, and everybody says 'Yeah. We agree. We want to take the risk. Not only the particle scientists but everyone...

Professor Roessler:
Yes. Then the Earth would have deserved it. Yes, yes.

notepad:
That we know. But I think we have to get at least at the point where we have clarified the risk situation - hence we can decide.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. One needs this as long that there is one scientist who says 'I have a proof that a risk exists' - and I have not encountered a single colleague on the planet who says I can prove you wrong. There is no one who uses his own name to say I am wrong, I give you assurance that this warning is false. And why not? Why not? You see, why does no scientist on the planet contradict me when I say to please not start this experiment without first having shown that the risk, that a specific risk that has been put on the table, does not exist.

notepad:
If an organization like the CERN is not afraid of laying down their arguments and hearing others... They are the top best world scientists reunited at CERN. And I'm sure they can handle for example Otto Roessler, Professor Otto Roessler - they must be smart enough.

Professor Roessler:
Right. They should be able to defeat me in a discussion. Why don't they dare?

notepad:
You said in an article about this recently that you are asking for this, you are waiting for this for 23 months now.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. This scientific safety conference. Yes.

notepad:
And nothing is happening. That is a good question: Why?. I would like one day maybe in the future that we could sit here three of us or maybe four, with some people of the CERN, and just discuss this like friends. Not like enemies.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. When it's hopefully not too late.

notepad:
When it's hopefully not too late. That would be before next week. So Monday would be good or Tuesday to start this conference.

Professor Roessler:
And we are asking very kindly and very benevolently and meekly the people at CERN: Please, wait until this security clearance is on the table.

notepad:
What do you think, what should a court - because we have exactly experienced a situation like that which we will discuss a bit further afterwards - what must a court do with a preliminary injunction request to halt a multi billion dollar particle physics experiment that a plaintiff claims could create a black hole that will devour the planet? The real life case of CERN seems like a real classic in the way of decision making. Unfortunately however no court has braved this extreme factual terrain to reach the merits. And these are not exactly my words, but these are the words of Professor Johnson.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. But he said that before the German High court ruled 3 days ago.

notepad:
Exactly. So the German high court possibly was aware of this essay. There has been a ruling - and I think we should explain this - there has been a ruling in Germany, the highest court of Germany, the 'Bundesverfassungsgericht' decided to not accept a complaint.

Professor Roessler:
It turned down this complaint to stop Cern.

notepad:
Exactly. And this is the last word in Germany. For this is the highest court and they said No. What is interesting in this for me personally is why they said No. In their court explanation they said things like 'Most of the scientists think it is not dangerous'.

Professor Roessler:
They said that the plaintiff - a medical assistant, I don't know what the name of the profession is, a technical assistant in medicine - that she had not proven, not given enough evidence to prove the dangerousness of CERN.

notepad:
But how can this work? Look, if i compare this to a doctor situation: I go in hospital and they have to open my body and the doctor leaves a knife in there. That happens. Happens sometimes. I as a patient have to go to prove to the hospital and the doctor that that is actually their knife, not me who put it into myself, to be accepted and to get my right. But how can it be expected that people prove to the CERN that its' absolutely certain that their will be a final accident?

Professor Roessler:
You see, the court could have ordered a hearing on the safety. To find out. Yet if the court says, we do not want to know whether it's dangerous or not but formally this is dismissed, then the court has said that it is not interested in the reason it was made for: as a court to help people find justice. This is not justice. This court can no longer function in it's former role. This court has disposed itself by its ruling. But I'm very grateful to Mr. Papier, who is the Boss of the court. Because my suspicion is he couldn't do it for particular reasons. He couldn't act otherwise. But he did it in the wrong moment. Exactly 3 days before we would have this last-minute meeting about a security conference here.

notepad:
So the timing is interesting.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. I have a suspicion. That he is a real human being. And I hope this will not be disproved (Laughter).

notepad:
The timing is very interesting. He could have just, like for example there is another complaint at the court of human rights in Geneva and as far as I know we have not heard back from that court.

Professor Roessler:
They don't have the courage of Mister Papier.

notepad:
Exactly. So it's a thing of courage. I think he basically writes between the lines, this is why I think, he understands our point of view but he is under some political pressure. Which is not surprising if you look at the biggest, most expensive machine of the World. In which of course there are many countries involved, many interests involved... but he had the courage, he was the first judge. And I think I agree with you. He had the courage at least to say something in time.

Professor Roessler:
At the wrong moment. Yes.

notepad:
Exaclty. At the good moment for us but at the wrong moment for some other interests.

Professor Roessler:
Exactly. For this establishment which prevents science from acting scientifically. For maybe military reasons. We don't know why.

notepad:
We don't know. But we would like to know. And we think that science ought to be good for human beings.

Professor Roessler:
Yes. Human beings should be good for human beings. It is so great to have this discussion with you, I have to say.

notepad:
It has been reported that Doctor Ellis from CERN said on the topic LSAG - the LHC security report done nearly 2 years ago: 'There is no scientific motivation for these reviews. They are a forgone conclusion'. How come somebody like Doctor Ellis would say such a thing?

Professor Roessler:
I have a very good impression of Doctor Ellis. I never meet him but he publicly accused me in a talk and he presented my paper, the first page, and told the audience that this is absolute nonsense. I was not happy. But at least this was a fair statement. And now the same person apparently has second thoughts. And so I have a second reason to admire him.

notepad:
It we look at this judge Hans-Jürgen Papier und John Ellis - we got 2 people, 2 human beings and 2 professionals that don't accept to say 'Yes, there is a danger - we have to do this safety conference - but they do something, there seems to be some message here.

Professor Roessler:
They act fairly. It's a fair statement if a court says that no one on the planet wants to know. You see. That's wonderful.

notepad:
That is interesting. I think there is really this issue of timing. Because if the CERN would not hurry, if it would take enough time - there would be this judge, I think, one day that would actually take the case - as Mr. Johnson, the legal professor in the US said. And the other side is of course maybe CERN knows that too and tries to do it as fast as possible. Making it more dangerous because they can't really see what happens. They have to really turn the machine up quickly. This is a bit a difficult situation.

Professor Roessler:
It's almost tragic. It's almost a comedy. It's a piece of...

notepad:
... a tragic comedy. Some authors - I know this is a little bit a special question, and especially for a scientist - but some authors write about a CERN LHC conspiracy. A hidden agenda. There have been talks about secret services being at the CERN and I don't know what. We even read a report about an apparent secret service infiltration. How much credibility do these reports have? They say earthquakes could be connected... People talk to me on the street saying: 'Have you seen, there have been so many earthquakes, the CERN switched on again'. What do you think about these theories that I would say go a bit further down the road.

Professor Roessler:
You see. Scientifically they would not hold water, of course. But the fact that people's subconscious produces such not completely correct visions proves that the public is more intelligent than science.

notepad:
I understand what you mean. They can't really say: 'Yes, this earthquake is CERN'. But they feel that the CERN is able to do something which is dangerous. SO basically they are starting to see symbolism here and there and go...

Professor Roessler:
One has to understand the language. The latter means something a little bit different than what is says. And then it is correct.

notepad:
Another theory that was a topic 2 months or so ago or three - they are even 2 actually quite well known scientists I think - another theory assumes that the LHC will never work because some force from the future will not let us destroy the World. I personally prefer to take care of safety regardless of some future force coming to protect us in the past. And you?

Professor Roessler:
I would say the same thing. This is again pseudo scientific statements which carry a deeper truth. There is this Swiss psychoanalyst C.G. Jung, who claimed that there is something like a public sensitivity which goes deeper than the surface shows and I would see this also in the same context. That the public and these scientists try to say something which they are not quite successful at expressing. And it shows the deep fears of people. And science should not make children feel fear.

notepad:
No. This is very personal, but I don't think it's Ok if my daughter comes home and just says: 'Oh my god, they talk about the CERN'. If we want to bring science forward - and I think the best way for scientists, and I think for the profession of these scientists especially at the CERN - and for it to have a future and to be well regarding citizens is to take care also of these fears.

Professor Roessler:
In a single word: Honesty. Openness. Why not say here is the evidence against this and this is the evidence for it and everyone can see and everything is one the table. Why keep it under the rug.

notepad:
Exactly. If we could do this safety conference, which Professor Roessler asks for since 23 months, and I keep asking and many others ask for. If we could this, and as you mentioned, it does not have to take years... It might take no more than a week actually to be sure that it is not dangerous. We can't guarantee it's done in 5 days.

'We admire you and we would really hope that you could sponsor this safety conference'
Armin Albarracin
'And also please help make Stephen Hawking become a knight very soon. That is a personal request from me'
Prof Roessler
(Source: Wikipedia, Picture: Charles, Prince of Wales)

Professor Roessler:
But presumably the first weaknesses we show very early on. And I asked Prince Charles to chair it actually. And we could mention that. It is on this public request and actually I put a few nice word in the beginning...

notepad:
Did he accept?

Professor Roessler:
He did not reply even.

notepad:
So if you are listening, Prince Charles. I know that you like talking to plants and you like nature ...

Professor Roessler:
And we admire you.

notepad:
We admire you and we would really hope that you could sponsor this safety conference.

Professor Roessler:
Or you could tell the World why you don't want to chair it.

notepad:
If you have a good reason for not doing it - do that.

Professor Roessler:
And also please help make Stephen Hawking become a knight very soon. That is a personal request from me.

notepad:
I understand you and we would sleep better if the LHC was not turned on as it is.

Professor Roessler:
I cannot live with the idea that they will do it. I cannot think being able to live beyond that day. I do not want to commit suicide of course. But I know it is impossible. It is not possible that the world is so stupid.

notepad:
In a way, we might be optimists. I don't know. Maybe we are realists, I hope we are realists ... we hope for this.

Professor Roessler:
If any child on the planet sees this interview - the child will know. He will know my parents will not allow this to happen.

notepad:
And any parent should look at their child and understand this issue. If they like children and they want a future for them.

Professor Roessler:
And the fear is hopefully wrong (Laughter).

notepad:
But in your personal opinion, right now, what would be the most efficient way to do this? Another lawsuit at some other court? The media?

Professor Roessler:
Good question.

notepad:
A political instrument. For example we know of the Swiss popular initiative. If you are Swiss you can launch an initiative, you need 3 people to depose an initiative, you get some time to get signatures and you can actually get the Swiss to vote. But it takes a lot of time.

Professor Roessler:
It's admirable. But it ought to have started 2 years ago. Then it might have worked.

notepad:
Exactly. But what would you personally think is the most effective way of getting this safety conference done?

Professor Roessler:
It's very easy. If this discussion is being aired on the Internet and if the whole world does not respond (Laughter). Then the children of the planet would have a reason to ask why.

notepad:
That is very nice. I would agree. And if that does not happen we will start to ask children on the street why. I go to schools and ask them if they think that is Ok. And we will just continue. I know you will continue, I know others will continue. notepad publishing will continue. We will just continue. In the name of children.

Professor Roessler:
Maybe that is a very good point to close on but maybe you have even more hard to-answer-questions (Laughter).

notepad:
We could close now but actually I got 2 or 3 quite interesting questions that I would still like to ask.

Professor Roessler:
I'm sure. I'm very curious.

notepad:
And I'm very curious as well to ask so many questions. I think this is a good question: Assuming some of the CERN scientists or other scientists participating at the LHC experiment are listening to this interview here, what would you tell them?

Professor Roessler:
I would say, I'm glad to be among friends and I'm completely on their side with everything they think. I also underwrite it. And I'm sure they would not object to having laid it open why my warnings are false. Maybe they can tell the world that they don't object that the facts are put on the table. Because they are my friends.

notepad:
I have as well a little question which is a bit special but basically - I'm half Spanish, half Swiss - so I read a lot of Spanish media too. And since years they write quite often of the CERN - not very critical but quite often - and they always call the CERN 'La maquina de Dios'. The God machine, the Gods machine. Whatever. It just counts 2 and 2 together in my brain and I see this. Especially if you look at these detectors, the Atlas detector, the CMS detector, they really look like cathedrals. Is there a religious kind of element to this?

Professor Roessler:
By all means. Science is the modern religion already. Although science does not talk about the essence of religion. Which is: 'Where does the NOW come from?' and 'where do colors come from?'. There is a beautiful red color on your sign (Laughter) and no one knows where redness comes from. And science is kind of lying to everyone on the planet by not admitting that there is no scientific reason whatsoever why redness should exist. On the contrary. You can prove that redness does not exist anywhere in the Universe. But we have it. So it's a present from heaven given to us. Like the World itself.

notepad:
On these words, Professor Roessler, I think thats very nice final words, I would like to thank you for this interview and I think we both hope with possibly many of our listeners that this safety conference will happen very soon.

Professor Otto E. Roessler

Professor Roessler:
I'm very grateful that such a notepad exists as you just produced. Thank you very much.

notepad:
Thank you.

Link: http://www.abc.es/20100309/ciencia-tecnologia-fisica-aceleradores/rechazada-primera-demanda-contra-201003091459.html

Eso es una cita de un articulo publicado en ABC.es el 9.3.2010:

'El Tribunal Constitucional (TC) alemán no comparte los temores de una demandante que se había querellado contra el Consejo Europeo de Investigación Nuclear (CERN) por temor a que su nuevo acelerador de partículas, el LHC, también conocido como «la máquina de Dios», pudiera generar agujeros negros que precipitasen el fin del mundo.

El TC ha rechazado hoy un recurso presentado por la demandante cuya querella ya había sido rechazada anteriormente por el Tribunal de lo Contencioso Administrativo de Renania del Norte-Westfalia. '

Link: http://www.abcdesevilla.es/20100224/ciencia-tecnologia-fisica-aceleradores/puede-echar-abajo-maquina-201002241446.html

Esto es una cita de un articulo de Fin del Mundo publicado el 25 de Diciembre 2010:

'Cuando quedan pocos días -quizás sea cuestión de horas- para que el Gran Colisionador de Hadrones (LHC, por sus siglas en inglés) arranque de nuevo después de unos meses de parón para reajustes técnicos, grupos de personas alarmadas en todo el mundo han acudido a los tribunales para que la «máquina de Dios», situada cerca de Ginebra, en Suiza, no vuelva a ponerse en funcionamiento. El motivo es la más extraordinaria de las denuncias: temen que el acelerador origine un gran agujero negro que engulla todo lo que encuentre a su alrededor. Esta hipótesis es en extremo apocalíptica pero, por extraña que resulte, ¿debe un juez considerarla y sacar la denuncia adelante? Un artículo de opinión firmado en la revista New Scientist, una de las más prestigiosas en el mundo científico, por Eric E. Johnson, profesor de leyes en la Universidad de Dakota del Norte, considera que, aunque hasta ahora las demandas contra el LHC hayan caído en saco roto, si se presenta la reclamación correcta ante el tribunal apropiado, quizás un juez tenga que afrontar muy pronto la cuestión de emitir o no una orden judicial para.... salvar el mundo.'

Link: http://www.hoy.com.ec/noticias-ecuador/robert-sawyer-abre-la-puerta-para-imaginarnos-el-futuro-393772.html

Eso es une cita de un articulo publicado en Hoy.com.ec el 20.02.2010:

'El libro del autor canadiense, que ha publicado más de 20 novelas en las principales editoriales estadounidenses, inicia con el relato de un desastre ocurrido en el CERN (Laboratorio europeo de partículas físicas, en español).

Se trata de un desajuste en LHC (Gran colisionador de hadrones) que provoca un corte en el espacio-tiempo de toda la humanidad.

El evento no planificado permite ver a las personas de todo el mundo lo que estarían haciendo 21 años en el futuro, contados exactamente desde el instante en que ocurrió el desastre del CERN.'

Link: http://www.elpais.com/articulo/sociedad/LHC/funcionara/anos/interrupcion/aumentar/energia/elpepusoccie/20100203elpepusoc_7/Tes

Esto es una cita de un articulo de El Pais publicado el 3.2.2010:

'El gran acelerador de partículas LHC, instalado junto a Ginebra, reanudará sus operaciones entre el 15 y el 20 de este mes, tras el período de parada actual iniciado a finales de año. Mientras en estas semanas se acaban de poner a punto unos nuevos sistemas de seguridad para reducir el riesgo de averías en el acelerador, los científicos del LHC han celebrado en Chamonix (Francia) su conferencia anual.

"La decisión más importante que hemos tomado es mantener el LHC en operación durante 18 o 24 meses a una energía de colisiones de partículas de 7 TeV [teraelectronvoltios], es decir 3,5 TeV por haz. Después habrá una larga parada en la que haremos todos los trabajos necesarios para alcanzar la energía de colisión prevista en el LHC de 14 TeV en el siguiente período de funcionamiento", ha explicado Steve Myers, responsable del LHC, a los miembros del Laboratorio Europeo de Física de Partículas (CERN), que alberga el acelerador.'